Street art s diplomom: razgovor s OKO

Street art s diplomom: razgovor s OKO

Kategorija Razgovori, Tema mjeseca | 24/04/2016 181

 

Nedavno sam imala priliku sjesti i uz kavu ugodno porazgovarati s Marinom, poznatijom kao OKO, o njenom životu, ali i njezinom umjetničkom djelovanju. Iako se nismo prije upoznale, zbog njezine vedrine i nasmijanosti stvorio se dojam kao da se poznajemo već godinama. Spremna je šaliti se na svoj račun i stoji nogama čvrsto na zemlji. “I dalje bježim od fotoaparata i kamera… to mi je najgore! Fora je u tome što imam delay na intervjuima. Kad me pitaš, dolazi stres da moram odmah odgovoriti.” Spominje kako je to naučila iz dokumentaraca o Bobu Dylanu koji uvijek uzima trenutak prije odgovaranja na pitanje novinara, “ne zato što ne možeš smisliti odgovor, nego je ta nervoza užasna. I sakriješ se iza rada – samo me pusti da crtam i sve je okej. Neka rad govori za mene.”

Svojim radovima već neko vrijeme plijeni pozornost medija, ali ono što iskače iz njenog opusa kao najzastupljenije na raznim socijalnim mrežama zasigurno je street art. Njezini likovi – ljudi zamaskirani u životinje ili samo životinje u odjeći – privlačni su publici pa zato njena popularnost ne čudi, ali s njom dolaze i neke promjene u svakodnevnom životu. “Zbunjuje. Fakat zbunjuje. Ima situacija u kojima se događa da mi ljudi prilaze i žele me zagrliti ili pogladiti po ruci. Ima bizarnih situacija kad mi ljudi šalju svoje poludnevnike i slično…” Ozbiljno? “…da, ozbiljno. Uživo mi priđu pa kažu nešto kao: ‘Ja sam bio tu i tu u nekoj instituciji pa mi je pomogao taj neki tvoj tekst i tome slično. Ja ne znam kako da reagiram jer nemam osjećaj da to ima veze sa mnom. Ja fakat nisam niš’ posebno i onda ih uvijek samo zagrlim. Ono ljudski ih zagrliš.” Na svojim društvenim mrežama gotovo svakodnevno objavljuje inspirativan sadržaj koji potiče ljude na vjeru u sebe, ali postoji i druga strana priče: “Bilo je neugodnih situacija u kojima se pojave neki čudni ljudi i to pod izgovorom poslovnih suradnji se žele naći s tobom… Nemoj mi slat poruke u 4 ujutro niti ikad više.” Zadnju rečenicu izgovara direktno upućenu takvim ljudima i zaključuje: “Naučiš se ponašati s vremenom.” Nakon kratkog objašnjenja govorim da mi se čini vedra oko svega i odlično se nosi s tom vrstom stresa. “Pusti ti to…”, kaže kroz smijeh, “sve je to trening!”

 

 

Kako je uopće došlo do tih likova koji danas žive posvuda, a ne samo na zidovima? “Meni su oduvijek bile super one stare maske za kugu. Kad sam prvi put otišla sama za London, prije 6 ili 7 godina, onda sam prijatelja kojeg sam gore upoznala, a koji radi za filmske studije, zamolila da mi napravi tu masku, ali bijelu jer obožavam bijelu boju i bijele ptice. Tak’ je krenulo – moji likovi su kao ljudi, ali imaju sve te neke maske. Iako sad baš postaju životinje jer polako odustajem od ljudi. Ne zbog crtanja, već životnog iskustva. S druge strane, i dalje sve te životinje predstavljaju ljudske osobine, iako odustajem od ljudi.” Podsjeća me to na basne koje smo svi čitali kao mali. Svaka životinja je zapravo neka ljudska osobina. “Ima nešto podsvjesno u tome, ali nije planirano. Ponekad je baš vizualno; vidiš čovjeka i točno znaš koja bi životinja mogao biti.

Njezin put prema umjetničkoj sceni neuobičajen je. Iako je završila Akademiju likovnih umjetnosti, zapravo je street art ono što joj je donijelo prve narudžbe, a kasnije izložbe i prilike za razvoj svog rada. “Ja nisam ni završila Akademiju, a već sam imala iza sebe stvari. Meni se Salon mladih dogodio na četvrtoj godini, t-ht mi se dogodio na petoj godini i to je bilo debelo prije diplome; znači nije kao da završiš Akademiju pa tek onda ideš u taj svijet.” Prisjeća se prvog plaćenog putovanja na drugoj godini akademskog obrazovanja: “To nije bilo zbog akademskog rada, iz Francuske su me zvali da radim neke grafike temeljeno na radovima koji su bili na cesti. Na tim prvim godinama studija ljudi me počinju kontaktirati zbog uličnih stvari. Automatski to otvara prostor da stalno radiš i onda uđeš unutar institucija. Čudan neki put.” Misliš li da bi taj put bio prirodniji da se ulazak na scenu nastavio na temelju tvojih institucionaliziranih radova, primjerice ono što si tada izlagala na Salonu mladih? “Ne, ne, ne, ne, užasno! Meni je to užasno!”, govori kroz smijeh i daje mi primjer: “Predvidi se put kretanja prema gore, a mene to užasava ili mi izgleda užasno dosadno. Glupo zvuči, možda, ali kad znam da imam izložbu ili radim projekt koji traje par mjeseci u startu mi se napola ne da. Ide mi na živce jer mi nije zanimljivo – moram si napraviti neku kompleksnost. To je zato što sam naučila da ako želim neku sliku ili crtež, odmah će biti tu – odem u atelje, ne spavam tri dana, razbolim se po mogućnosti pa sam dva dana u krevetu, a onda idemo dalje!

 

The Lonely Walkers galerija Vn

Izložba The Lonely Walkers u Galeriji Vn

 

Sama ne može odrediti je li njen rad i ona kao umjetnica zauzela svojevrsno reprezentativno mjesto na sceni samom činjenicom da je postigla najveću popularnost među širom publikom i tako, zasigurno, otvorila mnogima oči u pogledu toga da street art nije samo šaranje po zidu. “Onaj dio koji je meni zapravo najzanimljiviji je što mislim da  mnogo ljudi to doživljava kao vandalizam ili su mislili nešto treće. Često rade elitnu razliku između akademskog umjetnika i grafitera kao da su niži sloj u toj hijerarhiji. Onda zapravo shvatiš da je cijela jedna četa hrvatskih street artista sastavljena od akademskih umjetnika – to!”, govori ushićeno, a zatim nastavlja ozbiljnijim tonom: “Zato što lomi tu elitnu granicu i otvara mogućnost ljudima koji nemaju akademiju, a koji „ubijaju“ stvari, i konceptualno i vizualno, bez službene likovne naobrazbe.” U trenucima kad osjeća to guranje na marginu, ono čime pobjeđuje predrasude je upravo diploma u džepu, koliko god je i sama svjesna da to ne bi smjelo praviti razliku, ako si iskusan umjetnik. “Zapravo cijelo vrijeme mi je smiješno što stalno govorim da izgledam kao da sam došla s trčanja, a još sve ove tetovaže na meni, pa se ponekad doklimam na skejtu… ljudi onda pretpostave da nemam službeno obrazovanje, a ja imam magisterij. Tu i tamo se netko zaleti i pokušava te omalovažavati; ne zna ili ne kuži da zapravo to što ti radiš itekako košta i da si proputovao dosta.” Kako ih pobijediti? Radom. Smatra da treba uvijek imati pozitivan stav, raditi svoje i ne obazirati se na zle jezike.

“Ljudi često govore kako bi se trebao ponašati”, govori mi referirajući se na poslovne sastanke i razne domjenke na kojima je prisustvovala, “ali svi smo mi ljudi i svi će normalno razgovarati s tobom bez obzira na sve.” Zbog svojih putovanja puna je anegdota, a ističe jednu iz Rija koja je ostavila dubok utjecaj na nju, “Bili smo na kućnom tulumu jednog od vlasnika tog umjetničkog sajma. Ljudi moji, ja sam u Riju, nemam ništa dugačko za obući i nemam cipele! Klasična Marina odmah si pomisli koliko sam neprofesionalna, ali na kraju dođem na otvaranje u kratkim hlačama i tenisicama gdje mi prilazi jedan od tih suvlasnika i kaže:

“We like you”

“Why? Because I’m a clown?”

“No, because it’s too obvious we can’t buy you.”

Rekao mi je: „Remember that“ i fakat je bio u pravu. Kad god me zovu da pričam u nekoj školi ili negdje to im naglašavam – samo radi. Većina uspješnih ljudi su oni koji rade! I neće te osuditi kad dođeš na sastanak s rukom prljavom od boje jer shvaćaju da to nije fashion, nego ti radiš. Došao si dogovoriti, odradit što god treba, ili izložbu, ali ti ideš dalje raditi, ti svojim, a oni svojim poslom i to se cijeni.”

“Facebook je sve zeznuo kad nas je natjerao da promijenimo ime.” Još jedna izjava uz iskren smijeh. “Koliko god glupo zvučalo, zeznuo nas je.” Pitala sam je što je s njenim imenom OKO sad kad više anonimnosti nema? “Na početku mi je pasalo da se ne zna. Ne zbog misterioznosti, nego zato što radiš nešto svoje i paše ti taj moment distance koji daje sigurnost. Sa svim mojim frendovima je zezancija oko tih mijenjanja identiteta.” Jedina loša strana i nemogućnost imanja sigurnog umjetničkog identiteta je što institucije u Hrvatskoj zahtijevaju pravo ime umjetnika. “To mi se čini pretenciozno… zašto sve mora imati točno ime, dimenzije i opis s velikim riječima? U Hrvatskoj su me dosta ispitivali oko toga i bilo je dosta rasprave jer im uvijek trebaju neki službeni dokumenti, a onda ja ne želim pristati na to zato što stranci s tim nemaju problema. Rad se potpisuje kao OKO i u katalogu se tako zovem, iako se ja s ljudima upoznajem kao Marina, ljudi mi kažu “Hi, OKO!” Nakon kratke stanke zaključuje: “Zapravo velike institucije nemaju s tim više toliko problema, sad me manje galerije ganjaju s tim papirima. Ako mogu u MSU-u biti OKO, zašto ovdje ne mogu? Ali, mislim da je to možda zbog neke tradicije ovdje.”

 

Golden cage – where the birds go to die

 

Veliki aspekt street arta je to, što je i dalje većinski ilegalan: “Crtali smo prije na zidovima, ali… pojam ilegalnog je labav. Mislim da se istinski ilegalno odnosi na tegove i grafite. Ovi naši ilegalni zidovi su zapravo napuštena mjesta. Nije to Engleska gdje će trčati za tobom i dobit ćeš neku kaznu, ne funkcionira to tako. Bilo nas je puno mladih u ekipi i zabavljali smo se.” Razviju se kroz godine i najdraže tehnike slikanja na ulicama, od kojih ona izdvaja stencil, stvaranje šablone od plastike ili kartona koja se lako reproducira nebrojeno puta koristeći sprej ili boju, te paste up, lijepljenje same slike na površinu koristeći ljepilo koje je najčešće DIY. “Jednako vremena potrošim na stencil ili na sliku u ateljeu, a na cesti je free i vidljiva svima i propada.” Ali ističe i negativnu stranu prepuštanja djela ulici: “Klasični zakon ulice – svatko si uzima za pravo da osuđuje, uništava, kritizira. Da dospiješ u galeriju ipak si morao proći neko odobrenje pa ima opravdanje i dobivaš kritiku druge vrste. Vani ne mora nitko ništa odobrit i to je minus ulice.”

Oni koji se ne bave time zaboravljaju da ulična umjetnost podrazumijeva rad u različitim vremenskim uvjetima što je neugodno, koliko god se na kraju isplati vidjeti svoj rad na velikom zidu: “Često se razbolim jer vani pada kiša, mokra sam i smrznuta. Došla sam doma i nisam mogla izravnati kičmu jer je ostala poluukočena, pa onda ležim kao neki svizac dok ne dođem sebi. Ako si gore na skeli i vjetar puše, skela se njiše kao da si na trajektu! Ja sam došla doma gluha, usnicama presušenim od vjetra!”

“Mislim, u galeriji ti stres nadoknađuje vanjske uvjete.” S obzirom na njeno istovremeno iskustvo na ulici i unutar institucija, Marina je iskusila dobre i loše strane oba svijeta. “Mislim da i jedna i druga imaju i plus i minus. Osobno, mene nervira sporost i tromost u galerijama. Inače sam hiperaktivna i tromost me živcira, a galerija zahtijeva organizaciju, više ljudi, cijeli red odobravanja, puno papirologije i cijeli stres za otvaranje i konačnu prezentaciju. Plus galerije je stvarno možeš, ako sav stres uspiješ nekako isključiti i ostati u svom balonu, stvorit mini univerzum svaki put koji je baš kakvim si ga zamišljao svaki put jer imaš mir za rad.”

Postoji li razlika u radu na zidu i slikanju na platnu? “Radim istu stvar kao na papiru s najtanjim perom, samo sam sad na ogromnom zidu i radim s kistom debljine jednog centimetra na zidu od 20 metara. Zato me Španjolci i zovu oko loco jer na 9 metara visine ja radim kistićem i to nitko neće vidjeti!”

Pitanje koje muči mnoge je upravo institucionalizacija ulične umjetnosti. Ima li uopće poante u stavljanju uličnog u galerije i muzeje? Smeta li te to? “Ne. To je nešto s čime mi je užasno pomoglo putovanje po inozemstvu i susreti s ljudima koji su svjetska velika imena te scene koja rade za velike izložbe i brendove. Ja to ništa ne osuđujem. Moje osobno mišljenje – ne radim stvari iza kojih neću stajati, neću surađivati s ljudima s kojima ne želim. Mislim da je užasno osobno. Sad što kolektiv i okolina misle o tome – realno, misli doslovno što god želiš. Te neke definicije… ako je ulična umjetnost mora biti na ulici… daj pustite ljude da rade što hoće! Pravi street artist  će bez obzira na sve, čak i ako izlaže u nekoj velikoj galeriji, u nekom trenutku otići u 3 ujutro van i zalijepiti ili nacrtati nešto. Jer to radi za sebe.” Smatraš li onda da ulična umjetnost više utječe na instituciju dok se ondje nalazi, a ne obrnuto? “Mislim da je institucija napravila to da su se street artistima digle cijene, obratila se na njih pažnja i stvorila je cijelu jednu delegaciju wannabe street artista. Bilo koja jaka stvar institucija ili bilo što privlači jako puno lažnih sljedbenika. To se s vremenom i pravom publikom filtrira.” A misliš li da je pojava tih wannabeja u redu jer stvara vidljivost?  “Ja gledam iz svoje perspektive. Ponekad fizički ne stignem raditi slike za ulicu jer radim na primjer platna. Dok god imaš potrebu, radi to za sebe jer to nije dokazivanje nekome drugome. Bila sam u Belgiji, radila neke slike, a u pauzi dok se slike suše radim paste up koji ću zalijepit kad dođem u London. Za to me nitko ne plaća, to radiš za sebe! Na kraju zalijepim, pošaraju ga dan poslije i to je okej, htjela sam ga napraviti! Super stvar je kad si vani u velikim gradovima što se tamo kuži upornost. Jer tu kod nas je na ulici lijeno i možeš si priuštit lagani tempo, dok u velikom gradu zalijepiš i sutra toga više nema – osjetiš brzinu i moraš je pratiti. Tu se filtriraju ljudi koji se žele na brzinu uvaliti u nešto. Nemaš kapaciteta to pratiti! Stalno te gaze. I to je super.

A što je s intervencijom samom? Je li ona sama po sebi poruka? “Ja mislim da je. S time da, poruke su, kao i ljudi, različite. Ima ljudi koji će napravit crtu iz čiste frustracije i nezadovoljstva, a ima onih koji će je napraviti iz buntovne agresije. Fora mi je što je netko jednom rekao da je grad bez grafita mrtav. Jer ljudi tu žive i netko možda ne voli crtanje, ali bi htio posadit nešto – hvala bogu, postoji sad sve, pa tako i guerrilla gardening; stvarno ljudi rade svašta dok god ne štete nekome. Poštuj druge.” To bi bila poruka? “Definitivno, da.”

 

Rukom oslikane skateboard daske

 

Je li ulična umjetnost povezana direktno s nekom subkulturom? “Skejt je stalno bio oko mene. Imala sam one glupe faze, u kasnim dvadesetima – razmišljanje o tome kako svi moji prijatelji odrastaju i kako bih se ja trebala uozbiljiti. Ali ja sam počela skejtati s 27. Kako sam radila tada u skate shopu i svi su me znali ondje, bilo mi je neugodno i vježbala sam u 3 ujutro dok me nitko ne vidi. Doslovno, ono ja, skejt i pas.” Prisjeća se svojih padova i vježbanja uz smijeh, ali njena očita upornost uvijek je tjera dalje. “Daska mi je još u ateljeu i nisam se dugo skejtala, zima je, putovala sam stalno i sad se opet klimam na tome! Trebaš se vratiti u formu, kao i za bilo što drugo, ali sad izlazim po danu; ionako privlačim pažnju izgledom! Gušt je. Imaš osjećaj slobode koji, ako nisi probao, ne možeš objasniti.”

Ljudi gledaju uličnu umjetnost, posebno grafite, kao ono čime se bave isključivo dečki, osobito zbog tog aspekta vandalizma. Što je sa ženama u uličnoj umjetnosti? “Ima žena i to po cijelom svijetu i to vrhunskih žena. Kad mi netko kaže: ‘Žena nije hardcore’, onda jednostavno nisi upoznao dovoljno ljudi jer ih stvarno ima. Ako me netko omalovažava zbog toga što sam žena, to mi je samo plus jer me gura naprijed. Znači ovi zli jezici ionako ne očekuju od tebe puno pa kad se ti popneš na skelu od 7 metara i crtaš, onda ne znaju što bi, zbunjeni su. Ovi koji nisu zli, oni ti žele pomagati cijelo vrijeme jer misle da ti stalno treba pomoć. Meni je u principu žao što nema više cura. Ne znam zašto…” Jedan od razloga sigurno je i nedostatak bliske grupe prijatelja, kakvu je Marina imala oduvijek. “Ta cijela grupa je trajala dosta dugo. Jedni drugima ste snaga.” Zbog svog pozitivnog iskustva uvijek bodri druge u njihovim počecima: “Fućkaš dio di ne znaš kako bi počeo, ja ću ti objasniti sve! Stikeri, ljepilo i sve te gluposti. Ljudi se obično nasmiju na moje nagovaranje, dobiju entuzijazam, ali kad su sami malo to splasne i treba ih ohrabrivati. Ja uvijek velim: daj mi se javite! Kad sam bila puno mlađa, naišla sam na nekoga tko mi radi super stvari u Australiji i napisala sam mu poruku: „Hi, I’m gonna steal everything from you.“, na što mi on  odgovara „You don’t need to. Ask whatever you want.“ Ljudi nisu zlobni.”

 

Stvarno korisno znanje whw galerija nova

Izložba Stvarno korisno znanje u Galeriji Novoj

 

Nedostaje li ti grupa? Sama si u ovome sad. “Trik koji sam radila na početku svima predlažem – ako si nesiguran oko nečega nemoj nikome reći. Samo radi i nikome ništa nemoj reći dok se ne počneš sam osjećati okej. Dobit ćeš neizbježnu pažnju i, ili nisi za nju spreman, ili je ne želiš i da to izbjegneš i da si daš vremena da se navikneš, samo šuti i radi. S vremenom će se to saznati i bit ćeš već na razini sigurnosti na kojoj se možeš nositi s tim.” To je super savjet. “Pa je, jer sam se ja bacila u vatru i skoro poginula! Treba polako…”

Navodi video kao medij koji je htjela probati, a još nije imala priliku: “Video projekcije su zakon, pogotovo guerrilla projekcije. Znači: auto, akumulator, projektor, traceanje na mjestu… Video je nevjerojatna stvar. Zapravo kao live glazba. Traje, osjetiš i odeš doma s tim nekakvim osjećajem. Ja sve više koristim projekcije i zvuk i kužim po prijateljima s kojima se okružujem da su svi spremni na neke suradnje pa možda nešto i bude u budućnosti!”

Spominje nacrte za nadolazeću skulpturu od devet metara, ali dodaje: “Sve me privlači! Ovisi kako to želiš interpretirati. Zapravo si kao dijete koje sve zanima. Radit ću kaj hoću i čim želim! Samo što tu dolazi do problema s kojim sam se susrela i prije, za vrijeme studija. Ja bih, na primjer, otiskivala linorez na krpe koje sam šivala na lutke i onda radila klasične slike – onda na kraju semestra moraš dobiti ocijene… i ja ne znam gdje da odnesem to. Kojem odsjeku to sve pripada? Ja se toliko uzrujam jer ne mogu razlučiti što je i sve naguram na jednu hrpu i pozovem profesore da oni odluče. Vi si mislite kaj god hoćete, a ja ću samo raditi…

Od novih projekata izdvaja onaj devetometarske skulpture ispred Muzeja suvremene umjetnosti. “Oduvijek sam voljela Balku i moj rad će sad biti pored njega!” Bi li mogla prije deset godina zamisliti svoj život sad? “Ne. Nisam imala pojma kako će izgledati i još uvijek nemam pojma. Amerika ti kaže: „You’re gonna be a millionaire!“, ali tvoj bankovni račun se ne slaže s tim i zato se ne treba time zamarati. Kad bih počela razmišljati o tome šta bih ja trebala biti, zablokiram se i ne mogu se micati – samo sjedim, previše razmišljam i ništa ne radim. Na kraju krajeva sve kaj treba je sjesti i raditi! I onda sve funkcionira. Iskreno? Ja mislim da ništa nije nemoguće. Ako dovoljno inteligentno objasniš uvijek će biti netko tko će to shvatiti. Odjednom imam izložbu u MSU i ogroman zid unutra, sve osvijetljeno pa dovedem mamu tamo da napokon shvati što radim.” Govori o roditeljima s puno nježnosti. Prisjeća se kako je uvijek crtala i imala potporu u tome, iako je možda nisu uvijek razumjeli jer dolaze iz drugačije sredine. “Stalno si zadajem nove ciljeve. Sad hoću Tate! Koji se možda nikad ne dogodi, ali na meni je da pripremim i da vidimo. Prijatelji i ja imamo nestvarni projekt koji se zove Orbit – ajmo sad u Orbitu radit! Nema logike da se dogodi pa onda ako ti je to visoki cilj, onda je sve ostalo tako malo.

Kako to da si uzela atelje u Zagrebu? “Nisam htjela u početku… Imam taj neki set up u glavi. Imam dva telefona – jedan engleski i jedan hrvatski. Hrvatski je smartphone, a engleski doslovno shitphone. Englezi me uvijek zezaju zbog toga – znat ćeš da si se preselila zapravo kad zamijeniš telefone. U Hrvatskoj cijelo vrijeme iznajmljujem atelje od prijatelja, snalaziš se zapravo, dugo sam se smijala da sam umjetnik bez ateljea, a konstantno nešto radiš. Ako uzmem atelje… zapet ću u Hrvatskoj na dulje vrijeme! Ali to, naravno, nije istina. Trebam imati prostor za rad.”

 

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