Siniša Labrović – o performansu i domaćoj sceni

Siniša Labrović – o performansu i domaćoj sceni

Kategorija Razgovori | 05/11/2018 121

 

Siniša Labrović, jedan od najistaknutijih domaćih umjetnika performera, nedavno je u sklopu manifestacije Dani Općine Kamanje održao performans Pecanje koji je detaljnije objasnio za Kulturflux. Ovaj umjetnik iz Sinja je većini dobro poznat iz svoga performansa Stado.org gdje su ovce bile sudionice reality showa koji je bio praćen putem interneta, a idući performans održati će u Napulju. Iako seli u Berlin, namjerava i dalje djelovati u Hrvatskoj. U nastavku slijedi razgovor.

 

Kako si se počeo baviti umjetnošću?

Znači umjetnošću sam se počeo baviti kada sam vjerojatno sve isprike, uključujući i dobne isprike,  potrošio. Tada sam već imao 35 godina i bio sam jako nesiguran u pitanju toga da bih ja osobno mogao biti umjetnik, ali umjetnost sam jako volio i neke stvari sam već do tada prakticirao – neko piskaranje i slično, a istovremeno sam počeo pratiti suvremenu umjetnost koja mi se jako sviđala. S vremenom sam onda počeo razvijati neki kritički odnos prema suvremenoj umjetnosti, što mi je bilo pomalo nelagodno jer mi se činilo da netko tko je mog profila ne bi trebao imati pravo na kritički odnos prema nekim sjajnim i dobrim umjetnicima. Zatim sam počeo i sam imati ideje, a to se posebno odnosilo na performans. Kada sam morao definitivno odlučiti što bih htio raditi u životu, kad je došao neki zadnji trenutak da odlučim hoću li  ikada pokušati u polju umjetnosti, odlučio sam kontaktirati jednog novinara iz Splita, Sandija Vidulića. Prema nekim od tih mojih ideja imao je pozitivan odnos pa mi je rekao da kontaktiram Slavena Tolja koji je vrlo blagonaklon umjetnicima i početnicima koji ne dolaze iz, recimo to tako, faha – oni koji ne dolaze sa završenom akademijom. Onda sam kontaktirao Slavena koji je isto tako pozitivno reagirao. Dvijetisućitih u ožujku sam kod njega imao prvu izložbu i tako je to krenulo. Onda sam istog toga proljeća na raspisane natječaje u zagrebačkim galerijama poslao svoje prijedloge. Jedan dio tih prijedloga je bio prihvaćen, prve su reakcije na izložbe bile pozitivne, a i rad koji sam izveo u Sinju Zamatanje ranjenika, isto tako je odjeknuo u javnosti pa mi je sve to skupa dalo neko zrno samopouzdanja da nastavim s time dalje. Dakle, što se mene tiče, ja nikada nisam osjetio u krugovima u kojima se krećem i koji su meni važni, a to su galerije ili kustosi i kustosice naročito jer se uglavnom radi o kustosicama, diskriminatorski odnos prema tome da nisam završio akademiju, ali naravno jedan dio kolega se znao vrlo kritički i negativno odnositi prema činjenici da ja nemam završenu akademiju. Međutim, s vremenom čovjek nauči da je to dio procesa tako da bih u svakom slučaju svakoga tko ima neku ideju o sebi kao umjetniku ohrabrio da se pokuša izraziti u polju suvremene umjetnosti bez obzira na to je li završio akademiju ili nije.

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Stado.org, foto: dokumentacija autora, festival “Touch Me – Zlouoptreba inteligencije”, Zagreb, 2005.

Kako je tvoj rad prihvaćen u tvom rodnom kraju?

Mislim da vjerojatno kao i u nekom profesionalnom polju. Jedan dio ljudi možda bolje razumije, nego ostali ako ja sebi ne umišljam neku širinu ili možda kompleksnost radova. Mislim da su omjeri prihvaćanja i odbijanja vrlo često isti. Što se tiče mog rodnog kraja, neki od mojih radova su obilježeni mojim kritičkim pristupom prema hrvatskoj socijalnoj ili političkoj stvarnosti pa su vjerojatno i odnosi prema tim radovima obilježeni nekim afinitetima u polju politike pa bih rekao da desničari imaju negativan odnos prema većini mojih radova, a da ljevičari imaju pozitivniji. Neki od tih radova su im jako zazorni i čudni, kao što je recimo rad u kojem sam ispijao vlastitu mokraću, a neki su im naprosto zabavni i duhoviti ili čudni. Nisam imao , iako bi se to možda očekivalo od nekih mojih radova, nikakvih ugroza ili prijetnji ili napada. Sinj izgleda pomalo kao gruba sredina, ali ja sam sin tog Sinja pa je onda malo drugačiji odnos prema meni – posebno otkako sam otišao u Zagreb. Od tada ima ta neka mjera respekta prema činjenici da sam prihvaćen u nekim krugovima ili ne znam, možda zvuči banalno, da sam bio na televiziji pa ta neka vrsta autoriteta vjerojatno pomaže tako da je ustvari odnos miješan. Ali recimo što se tiče ostalog, odnosno nekih službenih struktura (osim izvaninstitucionalnih poziva u Sinju), iako Sinj ima pet-šest galerija, moj rad je uglavnom ignoriran – osim u jednom slučaju kada sam bio pozvan na jednu izložbu. Što se tiče pomoći, gotovo da je i nije bilo.

 

Što je bila inspiracija za tvoj nedavni performans Pecanje?

Prije Kamanja sam taj performans izveo na festivalu Mladi levi u Ljubljani, u organizaciji Bunkera. Ono što bi mogla biti inspiracija odnosno nešto što me potaklo je bila neka vrsta osjećaja apsurda u kojem smo, barem kako se to meni čini, uronjeni kao da se nalazimo u vremenu koje istovremeno nudi neko veliko polje mogućnosti. Cijelo društvo uključujući i znanost i tehnologiju i prirodu se u vrlo negativnom smislu nalazi u previranjima i sve skupa izgleda kao da je pred nama jedna velika neizvjesnost koja istovremeno nudi mogućnosti, a s druge strane kad to svedemo na individualne živote, čini mi se da su ljudi nekako jako zakočeni, da su već poprilično svedeni na neko more nemogućnosti i kao da taj neoliberalizam koji je ovladao i ta neka vrsta potpune fiksacije na novac ruši fleksibilnost nekih drugih odnosa u društvu i ljude jako steže u njihovim perspektivama. Tu negdje na tom pravcu rekao bih da se Pecanje kreće. U Ljubljani sam sedam sati pecao, a u Kamanju tri. Jedna prilično apsurdna radnja koja mene jako veseli zato što sedam sati ili koliko već vremena izvodim pecanje mogu se sam odmoriti i misliti neke svoje misli, osim kad se radi o veseloj komunikaciji s publikom, a s druge strane apsurd kao takav čini mi se jako potentan zato što se radi o nekoj vrsti kratkog spoja u stvarnosti koja nam je predstavljena kao normalna i nepromjenjiva, barem neoliberalizam tako hoće. Vidimo da se to sve skupa ljulja ovom desničarskom navalom i čini mi se da ta vrsta apsurda kao da nas dovodi u neku vrstu unutarnjeg konflikta koji nas onda tjera da razmislimo, a i da razmišljajući o budućnosti bismo trebali reflektirati sadašnjost. Ono što mi je važno u tom performansu je također ustrajnost. Iako nam se čini da je situacija potpuno bezizgledna jer je naravno nemoguće upecati ribu koja se nalazi u konzervi, čini mi da je ta jedna vrsta ustrajnosti ipak važna i nada, ali aktivna nada, znači nada koja traži da uložimo nešto od svoje energije i nešto od svojeg vremena i aktivne participacije da moramo nastaviti tražiti čudo, a kad kažem čudno ne mislim samo naš individualan život, nego i na socijalno, da moramo vjerovati u pozitivne promjene.

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Pecanje, foto: Silvia Roberta Zaplatić, Dani Općine Kamanje, Kamanje, 2018.

Siniša Labrović: RIBARJENJE (HR), Prešernov trg, 28.8.2017, Mladi levi

Pecanje, foto: Nada Žgank, festival Mladi levi, Ljubljana, 2018.

Koliko su se razlikovale reakcije ljudi u Kamanju i Ljubljani?

Mislim da sam  i u jednom i u drugom slučaju, kao i često kod svojih performansa, imao dvojbe i bilo je nelagodno i neizvjesno čekati kako će biti prihvaćena ta radnja, ali mislim da je i u jednom i u drugom slučaju ispalo sjajno. U Ljubljani, u tih sedam sati, direktno mi se obratilo, prišlo i komuniciralo s radom minimum pedesetak ljudi.  Vrlo često se radilo o djeci i tinejdžerima, bilo je živih reakcija i smijeha, pohvala, čuđenja i čestitki. Mislim da su čak i organizatori bili do neke mjere iznenađeni količinom i vrstom reakcija na rad koji jest apsurdan. S tim da su te reakcije kako sam to izvodio u centru Ljubljane na Tromostovju uključivale i jedan lijepi broj stranaca i turista ili onih koji su se drugim poslovima nalazili u Ljubljani. U Kamanju je publika poprilično drugačijeg profila, no bilo je odličnih reakcija. Radi se o tome da ljudi reagiraju na bilo koju od tih razina od čuđenja do pohvale, od smijeha do odbijanja ili negiranja radnje kao takve ili da im uopće nije jasno zašto bi netko pokušavao truditi se oko tako nečeg apsurdnog. Ali uglavnom, većinu ljudi koji se jesu susreli s radom, taj rad nije ostavio indiferentnim, nego mi se učinilo da nekako reagiraju na situaciju i da ta situacija proizvodi u njima asocijacije. Recimo jedna žena u Ljubljani je mislila da se radi o promociji dobre vrste ribe koja ne izaziva alergije jer je ona u nekom slučaju probala tune koje su njoj izazvale alergijsku reakciju pa recimo od toga do mora drugih reakcija. U Kamanju sam imao i jednu grupu ljudi koji su skupa sa mnom živo pratili situaciju. Htjeli su vidjeti hoće li će se eventualno čudo dogoditi

 

Je li publika ikada burno reagirala na neki tvoj performans?

Pa ja se ne mogu sjetiti, mislim, reakcija je bilo, ali uglavnom su te reakcije bile empatične, bile su pozitivne ili bi publika reagirala indiferentno, tako da se ne mogu sjetiti nekih jakih ili uopće nekih izrazitih negativnih reakcija na performanse. Kad to kažem, moramo znati da vrlo često kad se radi o performansima u javnom prostoru, dio ljudi koji prate ono što se događa dolazi iz krugova koji imaju afinitet prema suvremenoj umjetnosti i koji imaju afinitet prema performansu. Jedan dio njih su kolege pa čak iako imaju možda neko negativno mišljenje vrlo često neće negativno reagirati prema onome što gledaju, a s treće strane publika koja ne pripada tom svijetu umjetnosti može pratiti zainteresirano ono što se događa, ali će ostati u krajnjim slučajevima na distanci misleći da ne zna ili da nije pozvana da reagira na ono što se događa. Kad govorimo o reakcijama, nekad mi čak zna smetati da ljudi mogu odgledati cijeli performans, neće gotovo ništa razumjeti kako i zašto, a da svejedno neće ništa pitati. Dakle, ovdje postoji ta jedna vrsta jako negativnog odnosa autoriteta, dok će recimo stranci, ako nešto ne razumiju, bez problema nakon završetka performansa prići i upitati. To mi se znalo događati u Splitu kad sam neke stvari radio u Dioklecijanovim podrumima, stranci su uvijek razgovarali, ispitivali, interesirali se i slično.

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Ubij Cigana!, foto: Antun Maračić, inicijativa “Za dno”, Zagreb, 2015.

Mišljenje o trenutnoj domaćoj umjetničkoj sceni?

Kada govorim o domaćoj umjetničkoj sceni, moram priznati da nemam tako dobar uvid jer uslijed neke egzistencijalne i izložbene ili radne utrke često ne stižem pogledati sve ono što bih htio ili što bih trebao. Nemam komparativan uvid u onom smislu da kažem što je to što se sada događa u svijetu, a što je to kod nas pa da sada mogu kazati neki cjelovitiji uvid u scenu kao takvu. Ono što se meni čini da sceni nedostaje jest produkcijska podrška tako da ono što vidim da se događa među mlađim umjetnicama i umjetnicima i što se meni čini da jako je pozitivno je to da oni sve više odlaze van, da sve više računaju na inozemstvo. Hrvatska im je doslovce u nekom rasponu važnosti  često onoliko važna koliko teritorijalno zauzima u odnosu na ono što je njihovo polje geografskog interesa – Europa ili zapadni svijet. Jedan dio ljudi od toga na Hrvatsku uopće više ne računa osim na par galerija i na par kolega. Dosta se ljudi prije i sad obrazovalo vani pa ima jedan europski uvid i pristup. Nemam baš kuražnosti da bih isticao neka imena. Mislim da je Hrvatska uvijek dobro hvatala korak, mislim da je bila gotovo istodobna s kretanjima u suvremenoj umjetnosti, ali opet kažem ako mladi umjetnici ne odu van, nisam siguran da će to uspjeti zadržati zato što se suvremena umjetnost jako puno bazira na tehnologiji, biotehnologiji i na nekim suvremenim spoznajama i slično. Dakle, to traži dvije stvari, to traži znanje, a da bi imali znanje vi se tome morate moći posvetiti i imati vrijeme za dokolicu. Kada kažem dokolicu pritom ne mislim na ljenčarenje, nego neko radno vrijeme koje ne podrazumijeva da vi zarađujete novac. Ali ti su radovi vrlo često zahtjevni i skupi pa zahtijevaju više ljudi da bi ste ih producirali – to su kolaborativne stvari. Kako mi ovdje jako puno vremena trošimo u borbi za preživljavanje, mislim da je onda jako teško da se to može pratiti i u tom smislu me jako strah jer znam da u Hrvatskoj gotovo da se ne može naći ozbiljan i kompleksan rad, govorim o opusu koji bi se bazirao na suvremenoj znanosti i biotehnologiji, dakle, fizici i slično. To jednostavno znači da imamo problem, da se događa neki novi moment koji nije pozitivan za domaću scenu.

 

Spominjao si odlazak u Berlin, je li to povezano s prethodnim odgovorom?

Taj odlazak u Berlin je vezan uz neku moju osobnu situaciju, uz jedanaest godina veze i osam godina braka sa ženom. Ona je profesorica hrvatskog jezika i mi nju nismo uspjeli iz grada koji je vlakom udaljen nekih tri i pol, četiri sata, prebaciti u Zagreb kako bismo živjeli skupa. Ta situacija je postala poprilično zamorna, a do neke mjere i poražavajuća tako da je ona odlučila napustiti Hrvatsku i otići u Berlin s čime se ja jako slažem i drago mi je i onda naravno tragom ljubavi i ja ću krenuti za njom što ne znači da se ja neću vraćati u Hrvatsku i raditi u Hrvatskoj. Samo će moj životni šator biti negdje drugdje, a ja se i dalje namjeravam vraćati i nastaviti rad.

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Jedan i tri motiva, foto: Snježana Klarić, Izložba “Private”; galerija Vžigalica, Ljubljana 

Čime se još baviš u slobodno vrijeme?

Pa ne znam baš da sada mogu kazati čime se bavim u slobodno vrijeme. Nemam nekih drugih velikih interesa ili hobija koji se ne bi vrtjeli oko umjetnosti u raznim vidovima. I krug prijatelja bavi se na ovaj ili onaj način umjetnošću, ne samo vizualnom, nego ima tu i pisaca i glumaca i kustosica i slično. Tako da uglavnom ne bi čovjek mogao ni kazati što bi to bilo slobodno vrijeme, ali volim otići do Sljemena, volim se prošetati po gradu, to mi je neka vrsta odmora i užitka. Ne znam da li čitanje i gledanje filmova ulazi u slobodno vrijeme. Ne pratim televiziju, ali treći program hrvatske televizije je znao imati sjajnih filmova pa sam znao pogledati ili popratiti emisije o suvremenoj umjetnosti ili poslušati treći program hrvatskog radija, ali čini mi se da se taj opseg kvalitete polako smanjuje i na jednom i na drugom trećem programu. Uslijed strke nešto sam malo smanjio i gledanje i slušanje.

 

Radiš li trenutno na novom performansu?

Nova ideja postoji, ne postoji samo jedna, srećom, jer da postoji samo jedna doista bih se osjećao anksiozno i strepio bih što je to sa mnom. Uvijek postoji neki broj ideja koje stoje na lageru, zapisane, zabilježene ili pamćene pa onda već prema natječajima ili pozivima budu realizirane. Dakle, to što bi sljedeće trebalo biti realizirano odnosno izvedeno je performans u Napulju, negdje 22. ili 23. studenog. Za sad sam poslao kustosici Adriani Rispoli prijedloge za dva performansa u Napulju u muzeju Hermanna Nitscha i tamo će gostovati još nekoliko hrvatskih umjetnika. Mislim da će ona od ta dva prijedloga izabrati onaj za koji više odgovara i kontekstu muzeja i kontekstu drugih performansa pa ćemo vidjeti. Sad da ulazim u to o čemu se radi možda nema smisla.

naslovna fotografija: Silvia Roberta Zaplatić

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